"The blob" — an unflattering nickname for the U.S. foreign policy establishment coined by a senior Obama official — gets a bad rap these days. From Obama to Trump, Washington's foreign policy elite are blamed for being too hawkish, relying on tired conventional wisdom, and generally weakening America's foreign policy position. In this episode, two members of the blob (along with a mystery guest) push back...over drinks, of course. Listen to Jim Steinberg, a former Deputy Secretary of the State Dept, and Frank Gavin, the director of the Kissinger Center at SAIS, defend the blob. Their argument? You don't know how good you have it. As a bonus, we also nerd out on George Kennan a bit.

This week, Loren, Radha, and Erin discuss the North Korean assassination (beware the perfume lady) and take questions from listeners (what is inter-service rivalry anyway?). Kori Schake joins to dissect the defense budget, H.R. McMaster's challenges at the National Security Council, Thucydides, and why she hates Moneyball.