As the world endures a pandemic, we look to a plague of the past: that which struck Athens early in the Peloponnesian War. And we do so with the aid of Neville Morley, professor of classics and ancient history at the University of Exeter. Where did the plague come from? How did it affect the war? How did it change Athenian society? We explore these questions and more in a fascinating extended conversation. Neville is the perfect guide for these matters, having written many books and articles on different aspects of ancient history and its modern influence, including Roman imperialism, ancient trade, and the ancient Greek historian Thucydides. 

Further reading: 

• Neville Morley, A User's Guide to Thucydides, Parts One and Two
• Thucydides (trans. Jeremy Mynott), The War of the Peloponnesians and the Athenians
• Thucydides (trans. Martin Hammond), The Peloponnesian War

America has been at war since the fall of 2001. There is no end in sight in Afghanistan, Mesopotamia and the Levant, and beyond. What political and strategic disincentives have stalled Washington's ability to responsibly end its involvement in these wars under Republican and Democratic administrations? After spraying down our studio with grain alcohol to kill the virus afflicting the world (Everclear is the unofficial sponsor of this episode, as is an excellent northern Italian vineyard called Paltrinieri), we convened a great group to grapple with the forever wars: Paul Miller of Georgetown, Sarah Kreps of Cornell, and Will Ruger of the Charles Koch Institute and Foundation. 

Further reading:

• Paul Miller, Withdrawal Deadlines in War (Atlantic Council, 2020)
• Sarah Kreps, Taxing Wars: The American Way of War Finance and the Decline of Democracy (Oxford University Press, 2018)
• Will Ruger, "With U.S. Strategy on the Rocks, We Are Supporting Fresh Perspectives Fresh Perspectives in Foreign Policy," War on the Rocks
• Paul Miller, "How Does Jihadism End? Choosing Between Forever War and Nation Building," War on the Rocks
• John Kaag and Sarah Kreps, Drone Warfare (Polity, 2014)
• Sarah Kreps, Coalitions of Convenience: United States Military Interventions after the Cold War (Oxford University Press, 2011)

Devour this deep dive into the dash to drop America's drawn-out duel in the domain of the Durrani (and different dynasties): Afghanistan. To help us understand what's transpired and the meaning of the new deal between the United States and the Taliban, Ryan was joined by Orzala Nemat, Laurel Miller, and Vikram J. Singh -- all of whom have many years of experience with America's longest war.

For members, we have some bonus material (posted in the War Hall): Dr. Nemat tells us what a certain Hamid Karzai has been up to. Want to become a member? Click: https://warontherocks.com/membership/

Further reading and listening:

• Barnett Rubin, "Fighting and Talking with the Taliban During the Obama Years," War on the Rocks
• Laurel Miller, "The Trump Administration’s Afghanistan Policy," Testimony to the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs
• Vikram Signh, "Behind The U.S.-Taliban Ceasefire Agreement In Afghanistan," NPR, interview by Ari Shapiro
• Chris Brose, Melanie Marlow, Christopher Preble, "Why is America Leaving Afghanistan Now?" Net Assessment
• John Bew, Ryan Evans, Peter Neumann, and Marisa Porgest, Talking to the Taliban: Hope over History (ICSR: 2013)